User:	i_wannabe_irish
Date:	2007-09-19 01:26 (UTC)
Subject:	(no subject)

Could we do what dogs do and pee on it? That claims "it" as yours then. :D

User: dulcimeoww Date: 2007-09-19 03:32 (UTC) Subject: (no subject) Keyword: Eh?

Posted about it to see if I can spark some discussion: http://forums.errantstory.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=67

User: skjie Date: 2007-09-19 05:09 (UTC) Subject: (no subject)

It's really sad that while we talk about being in a free society, this sort of thing still happens every day; and not just in the deep south, either...

User: olegriz Date: 2007-09-19 07:15 (UTC) Subject: (no subject) Keyword: Stannis

Based on the website, this situation certainly seems like a miscarriage of justice since the black students involved in the assault are being punished much more severely than the whites who have contributed to the community tensions. That said, even if the beating victim made the provocative statements attributed to him on the site you linked, there is no justification for assault, and the perpetrators should be punished accordingly. (I note that the pro-Jena Six website you linked to doesn't exactly deny their guilt for the assault). The punishments that they stand to receive are excessive, but (assuming they are guilty) some punishment should be given. The real problem in this case is the lack of serious punishment for the whites who have helped to create the tension in the community.

As for your comments on privelege, I wasn't entirely clear what was meant with your last sentence and thus can't fully respond. However, I agree that the "white tree" is something that can't really be defended, and the threat that the historical meaning of nooses on a tree implies is not a legitimate way of defending anything.

User: chibi_squirt Date: 2007-09-19 16:29 (UTC) Subject: (no subject) Keyword: deep thoughts

That said, even if the beating victim made the provocative statements attributed to him on the site you linked, there is no justification for assault, and the perpetrators should be punished accordingly.

I'm pretty sure no one was recommending *not* punishing them. The objection is not to the presence of censure--which is justified--but to the extremity, pettiness, and bias of it, which can *never* be justified.

Consider, these young men are on trial for murder, whereas the beating victim's beater (gosh, that's awkward) is on trial for assault. Similarly, the students who tied the nooses in the tree weren't punished, but the DA came out and threatened the black students who sat under the tree.

As to my comments on privilege: Being able to turn my back on an argument about racism is part of being privileged by my skin tone; those in the minority know that if they don't stand up and say something, then what's going on could bite them in the ass some day. It can't bite me because I'm white, but taking advantage of that privilege (in some opinions, at least) is wrong. (I don't know if I actually agree with this opinion or not, but since my alternatives are either: take a course which may or may not be right *or* take a course which may or may not be wrong, I think I'll take the one which may or may not be right and open my damn mouth.)

User: olegriz Date: 2007-09-19 18:02 (UTC) Subject: (no subject) Keyword: Stannis

I'm not sure that the players on the Duke lacrosse team would agree with your assertion that a situation like this could never bite you (though being white makes it much less likely that something like this would happen to you).

Also, as I'm sure you know, privilege isn't distributed on strictly racial lines. I'm quite sure that you or I would be more likely to be severely punished for a DUI than say, a black player for the Bengals. Any system of privilege, where some people are treated better than others is unfair to those at the bottom, but the existence of such a hierarchy is inevitable. All we can change is who is on top, and to a lesser extent, how far they are above those below them.

User: chibi_squirt Date: 2007-09-19 20:32 (UTC) Subject: (no subject) Keyword: deep thoughts

Yeah, but coming up with exceptions to the rule like black Bengals players doesn't make the general rule less true--if I'm walking out of a store with my biracial friend Kyle and one of us has shoplifted merchandise in our bag--not that either of us would--people are much more likely to believe that Kyle stole something than that I stole something and dumped it in his bag, and this regardless of whether I have previous convictions of shoplifting, more money than he does, *or* less money than he does. Maybe if I had a previous diagnosis of kleptomania, but even then possibly not.

And, yeah, a hierarchy is inevitable. So is acne, but you still wash your face. Fighting hierarchy is part of citizenship.